The Duo Behind Podcast That’s So Retrograde Brings Wellness Wisdom From LA To Listeners Around The World

Elizabeth Kott and Stephanie Simbari, the friends behind popular podcast That’s So Retrograde, have taken a growing group of listeners along on their sometimes circuitous and often hilarious health and spiritual-awareness journeys since 2015. The LA-based duo interviews various wellness world luminaries weekly, including hormone expert Alisa Vitti, Free and Native founder Lacy Phillips, dermatologist Jennifer Kramer, and tantric numerologist and yogi Remington Donovan. Kott and Simbari’s questions to their guests are as much for the pair’s edification as their listeners’ education. They use wit and curiosity to parse the ways each guest’s specific expertise can enrich them and their audience. “96% of our guests are people we meet in our daily lives,” shares Kott. “Then, we’re like, ‘We need to have you on our show.’ I think that’s what keeps it so authentic and special. We do have genuine admiration for what the people who come on are doing and how they’re doing it.”

Beauty Independent talked to the That’s So Retrograde hosts about what the term wellness means today, products and practices they adore, an important tidbit to know about a potential boyfriend and a dubious treatment that crosses their very far-out line.

Why did you start That’s So Retrograde?

Simbari: We were friends, both doing different things. I was doing comedy and Elizabeth was working in fashion, but we would sit around talking about the things that [we were] interested in. We weren’t finding information in a way that we could totally understand or relate to, and [that] coincided with a magical opportunity that came our way. It seemed like the perfect time to be like, “We can talk about this and explore this.” We’ve been on a journey of discovery ourselves within this whole process. What keeps it cool and interesting for both of us is that we’re discovering what’s possible with That’s So Retrograde.

What does the word wellness mean to you?

Kott: Wellness is such an overused buzzword. That’s not a bad thing, but I like the word alignment more. I think the world of wellness, every single facet that goes into it, is really about what makes us feel alive because, to me, that’s when I feel my best.

Simbari: I agree with that. For me, wellness is about confidence in making conscious choices and understanding what you’re engaging with and why.

What are some of the biggest trends in beauty and wellness that excite you?

Kott: The overall consciousness that is being infused into the beauty industry. With independent beauty, that’s been the mainstay for a much longer time, but, with bigger beauty brands, they’re getting on the bandwagon, and consumers are being more conscious in general. Going back to the idea of wellness being a trend, I don’t think that’s a bad thing, and the byproduct of the wellness trend is that people are paying attention. As a result, brands are starting to step up. They’re [being] held accountable for what they put in their products. That wave, I really believe, started with independent beauty. The fact that the indie trends are now catching on in the mainstream [is] a beautiful thing.

Skin being our biggest organ is something that is now common knowledge. I don’t know if that was the case for the beauty consumer many years ago. The trend of knowledge is still one that excites me the most right now because we’re explorers in the space, and the fact that information is now seemingly more readily available feels really important and cool. The accountability that brands are taking toward not only providing great beauty products that work, but also [having] a consciousness, that’s great.

Are there wellness trends that either one of you were a hard no on?

Simbari: One of my friends from growing up has lyme disease. She’s very vocal about it on Instagram, constantly posting pictures. Then, she recently posted a picture of herself using her own menstrual blood as a face mask. I think I finally discovered my line.

There is the movement to reclaim your medicine and reclaim your period and connect with your body, and Elizabeth and I both are about that. We’ve done interviews with Alisa Vitti, and we’re both into using our cycle as a source of information and a guide book for our lives. But you’re not going to catch me making a face mask out of my period.

Is there a beneficial ingredient in menstrual blood that’s good for lyme disease?

Simbari: I don’t know if it’s directly correlated to lyme disease. I think it’s her way of connecting and reclaiming every part of her own body, which I understand. I think that’s beautiful to really explore all facets of what you might’ve been neglecting, but…

How can a newbie dip her toes into wellness?

Kott: Infrared sauna is a really fun, multi-beneficial, low-effort way. You are bringing yourself into a zone of discomfort, but the benefits from it are something that Steph and I really love. It’s a really nice way to deeply relaxed and shut off. You’re not going to be on your phone. You’re going to be able to sit with yourself for a little bit, in quiet, and lose some toxins out of your body and feel great after. And you’re not supposed to have caffeine beforehand, so you have to be mindful in your day leading up to it. You’re ticking a lot of boxes at once. I think that’s a really fun thing to try that’s minimum commitment.

We love cryotherapy as well. Some of these are really fun things to do with your friends. We are huge proponents of a wellness state. As fun as it is to go to the bar with your girlfriends, it’s also fun to try something new that is focused around self-care.

Simbari: It comes down to trying any of the things you’re interested in, even if it’s just drinking lemon water in the morning. It’s about discovering a plan of taking care of yourself that’s enjoyable and feasible.

How do you discover new beauty and wellness brands? What are different ways you work with them?

Kott: Steph and I both are innately explorers with products. I come from an editorial background. I helped start The Zoe Report. That was fun because I was like an editor, and that really sparked my intrigue and desire to go on a discovery path of what’s out there. And we’ve both also had the need to find solutions to skin ailments or digestive issues. So, the deep dive is dear to our our hearts and out of necessity, and not so much, “We got sent fun things,” although we do get sent fun things from people who would like to put their brands on our radar. But it’s really much more personal than that.

Simbari: The thing is that we would be doing this anyway. Even if we didn’t have the show, we would both be seeking this out regardless.

What are things you’ve discovered through your podcast that you love?

Kott: We both love astrology. There’s a few [astrologers] that have been [guests]. Ambi Kavanaugh has been with our show since its inception, Dani Beinstein is another one we’ve had on our show. Steph works with this woman named Shannon Aganza.

Simbari: Even though [astrology] is very mathematical, everyone’s approach is a little different, and everyone’s interpretation is a little different. It’s about finding the reading that resonates with you the most. I’m also really high maintenance and need someone who’s going to give me a lot of attention. Every time I meet a guy, I might have a crush on I ask him his birth time and text Shannon to tell me everything.

Kott: During the winter, I didn’t want to do any hardcore workouts, so I got into ballet stretching classes, where it’s an hour of ballet warm up. Reiki is something that I discovered through the show that I really love. There’s a group Reiki class at Den Meditation that I go to once a week that’s awesome.

What are some of your favorite beauty products right now?

Kott: Kosås Cream Blush & Highlighter Duo. KKW lip gloss in yellow gold. Wander Beauty Dualist concealer, Flash Focus Hydrating [Foundation] Stick. Hourglass Hidden Corrective Concealer. Cocokind rose spray. Complex Beauty Rose Glow Glycolic Mask. Corrective Skincare face shampoo. Coola Sport [Face] SPF 50 white tea sunscreen. Brett Brow Laser Brow pencil. I’m currently coveting Lake + Skye 11:11 fragrance.

Simbari: Vapour [foundations:] Atmosphere Soft Focus s123 and Atmosphere Luminous s123. Supergoop Unseen Sunscreen SPF 40. [From] RMS, Tinted Un Powder, Living Luminizer, Eye Polish. Lily Lolo mascara [in] black [for] daytime, Elizabeth Arden Grand Entrance Mascara [for] nighttime. Plume Nourish & Define Brow Pomade in ashy daybreak. Urban Decay Moondust Eyeshadow Palette. Kuumba Made [fragrance] oil in Arabian sandalwood. Ouli’s Ointment for literally everything. Herbivore Orchid Facial Oil [and] Coco Rose Body Polish. Frank Body Lip Scrub. Kosås Thrillist Lipstick. KKW lipgloss in yellow gold. [From] Derma E, Tea Tree and Vitamin E Antiseptic Cream [and] Hydrating Night Cream. [For hair,] Kate Blanc Cosmetics Castor Oil, Sachajuan Ocean Mist and Living Proof Restore Perfecting Spray.

That's So Retrograde podcast
Elizabeth Kott and Stephanie Simbari

When you do events, how do you like to work with brands?

Kott: Our relationship to our listeners is primary, so we work hard to never work with anyone we don’t truly endorse, really love and wouldn’t got to the store and purchase. That’s the biggest thing.

Also, we feel we’re getting inundated with the wellness panel phenomenon. Every other event we’re invited to is a wellness panel and that, for us, doesn’t fly. Our show so much revolves around the experience of it all. We did an event recently where we had nontoxic beauty makeovers from Roots Beauty, and she was using Ilia products and giving everyone a bold lip when they entered. Or, at an event while we were doing our live show, we had an acupuncturist walking around giving everyone third eye opening acupuncture.

We don’t want to just talk about something at an event. We want our community to experience it. That is a primary. We love a gift bag, but, when it comes to brands we work with, we want to partner in an innovative way.

How do you like brands to approach you?

Kott: A lot of brands reach out because they want their founders on our show, which is totally understandable, and it’s so cool that we have a platform that they know will be a nice opportunity for them. [It’s] really amazing that we created that. That being said, we are constantly in discovery mode on our own, and we would rather support a brand that we’ve found ourselves and tried, and has an amazing story versus getting picked by them.

Simbari: We want to try products, but that can create an expectation that we have to talk about it or have to like it.

Kott: I started in PR. I worked on the editorial side of things. I get how it all works, and how much is invested into trying to get brands on people’s radars. It’s always throwing something up against the wall and seeing if it sticks. There’s never a sure thing, but it’s an interesting line to be straddling. Once in a while, something really amazing comes to us that we wouldn’t have known about otherwise if it weren’t for a blind pitch. That’s the name of the game. Usually, we’re in discovery mode consistently. We also haven’t gotten to the point where we approach brands, and tell them we want to partner with them. They usually come to us.

With Roots Beauty, that was a listener of ours. It’s a super cool indie beauty spot. She’s [the owner] amazing and really passionate, and we connected with her and looped her in. We found when were more open to saying yes to things, things say yes to us. It’s kind of cyclical.

“We don’t want to just talk about something at an event, we want our community to experience it. That is a primary. We love a gift bag, but, when it comes to brands we work with, we want to partner in an innovative way.”

You recently joined the Dear Media podcast network. How does that affect how you partner with brands?

Simbari: We joined Dear Media in May, and we are so happy with our new home. If brands would like to work with us, they can reach out [to thatssoretrograde@gmail.com], and we can connect them with the individual who handles all of our partnerships now.

Do you think that you could do what you do not in LA?

Kott: It would be different because LA, historically, is such an epicenter for self-care ideas, the outlandish and, then, also the things that end up infiltrating the rest of the country. We’re so in [wellness]. It’s part of our everyday life, whether we want to acknowledge it or not. Anytime we [connect] with our listeners outside [LA], they’re like, “We had no idea about that.” I think we would have less of a finger on the pulse [outside LA].

Who are dream guests you’d love to have on the podcast?

Kott: Esther Perel.

Simbari: I was going to say that!

Kott: She’s amazing. She’s leading a conversation that’s so important right now. RuPaul. We’d love to have a conversation with Gwyneth Paltrow. We think she’s really been leading the way and has experienced backlash in that process, and we want to talk to her about that.